The ongoing Raw-specific PPV thread

It's worth trying something with those divisions that is different. Uso's vs Hardy's has been campaigned for a lot. But when the Hardy's split, and if New Day split up in the future you are looking at bare bones for top teams. Revival out, Gallows and Anderson acting as the old fashioned super Cena fodder, no one else has any momentum.

It also makes my prediction of the Bloodline vs an Undertaker faction a bit more likely. Reigns even said Bloodline and Undertaker in the same promo this week ha ha.

At least these questions were answered
Whats next for Bray Wyatt ? nothing much
How will Enzo do in his cruiserweight debut ? Not great

Having watched the Cena Reigns promo, Cena came off looking like an absolute dick. Couldn't help thinking that if wwe really want to get Roman over, pointing out all his flaws in a promo isn't the best way of going it.

It seems like it's all done by design apart from the odd Cena comment that he adds in on his own. I think the intention is to make Cena seem petty and all talk, and obviously Roman has to come out on top in the actual match, It will either work by somehow making Cena fans side with Roman (honestly can't see it panning out that way) or make his current fans question him, because it is entertainment and he is not anywhere near ready to do what Cena does for WWE. Currently I'm quite enjoying the build though, it seems like a big deal like it should do. They made Reigns look a bit better by cutting out the stumbles and potato faced moments via the highlight reel before Raw at least. I still can't see him as a Cena replacement like the story suggests, because like it or not Cena nailed sports entertainment by being consistently entertaining to his large fan base. Reigns has a fan base, but based more on a traditional "he wins so is the best" viewpoint.

My only worry is, Reigns won me round as a character to some extent when WWE stopped trying to make him say funny things, or be entertaining, but just embracing the hatred with an attitude and poise. I don't like him, as such, but can tolerate him in that role because it added to the show overall and the way it wound up fans even more was delightful. Now he is entering the realms of Ball joke Cena, and he possibly stumbled into an 07 Cena mistake, by hinting Cena was "gay" as a negative trait, which right now could possibly put off even more of his fan base. Not looked to see if there was any online reaction to it, but it probably wasn't a smart move in 2017, by him or the writer. To me it seemed like a scripted moment designed to make the segment feel unscripted, giving Cena the "your fly is down" and an easy line for Roman "I busted it... you see... Big Dog..." to make it seem he can riff with Cena. But then it went into a weird thing about who's looking at who's balls and Reigns might have slipped up with his last comment on the matter. Nothing Cena or the Rock haven't done in the past, but like I say 2017.

To me Reigns is taking a step back in this feud, but the build is still decent. It's undoing what makes Reigns an entity though, so At this rate he may have to squash Cena and Claim he retired Undertaker and Cena to get back to where he was previously haha.

The problem is with Reigns using promos to build a match is that he's just okay on the mic. Cena, on the other hand, when he wants to be, is amazing. He's up there with Piper, Rock and Punk on the all-time list for me. For this one, Cena seems to be utterly motivatedd to show Reigns that he (Cena) is still the guy, but pointing out when he forgot his lines was an utterly dick thing to do. One thing telling the audience Rock has his buletpoints written on his arm, but doing that to someone who's not got the promo skills to shrug it off makes Reigns look dumb and Cena like a dick.

Reigns coming out on Raw after Mania was his defining moment, just soaking up the hatred, smirking and not giving a fuck. Perfect Reigns.

Reigns trying to talk people into watching his matches, not good. I think Reigns would work best as the champ, taking on heels and faces, letting them do the promo work and then just destroying them. Or at the least, give him Heyman when Brock's not around.

I thought it was quite clear on Raw that they are booking Reigns as the babyface of this rivalry. Even though he doesn't need to be a babyface or a heel. He asked Cena to fight him there, and Cena backed down,

He should now refuse to speak to Cena if Cena refuses to fight. That could be a way of making Roman look like he doesn't care about his words, because we know he doesnt get affected by words (apart from the one point when they showed his reaction to Cena cutting him down, although we know that wasn't Roman Reigns being affected, it was Joe anoa'i) Let Cena talk, say anything, but have Roman do what he does best, not giving a shit and simply being about the fight, (without saying "the big fight" at any point)

That's why I called it a step back, his path was clear, he was becoming his own entity definable as Roman Reigns, but now because they need Cena to talk they are stuck throwing Roman in and seeing if it works. After this feud you can't imagine Roman would do anything other than go back to doing what he was before anyway. Beating people and looking confident in front of a booing crowd. This is why I think he might beat Cena quite comfortably, so he can do the post Mania thing again,

I've been mulling this over for most of the day (as happens when you have two daughters and are expected to play Barbies every Sunday) - I'd move Roman over to Smackdown. The problem with him on Raw is that you've got Strowman - booked like a monster, and looks one too. Lesnar - booked like a monster, and has the llegit background that makes him a monster. Joe - booked to be a destroyer, and has enough thinking he's an actual badass that he gets away with it. Reigns is pretty much one of the crowd in his booking, he struggled in the SummerSlam main event when faced with the other three and he needs to regain that X factor he had.

Once he's through with Cena, I'd stick him over onto Smackdown, where there isn't anyone to rival him. I'd be tempted to trade him and Orton over, he gets a new roster to tear through, we can move away from the inevitable Shield reunion (mainly going to happen to try and get the audience to cheer him) and gives him better in-ring workers to go against.

I think the only way him not speaking vs Cena is going to work is as if he lets Cena vent at him, then annihilates him with a spear or something. If one guy is doing all the talking, the danger is the other guy ends up looking too passive. You need something to happen to re-establish the other guy as a genuine threat.

And on this week's Raw, Cena owned Reigns again. Reigns' jibes about Cena not breaking Hollywood seemed a bit shit, especially as Cena is off to film a Transformers movie very soon...

Cena's last crack about Reigns failing the drug test just nailed it though, shame Reigns didn't get the chance to respond before Cena left the ring. Still not liking the tactic of pointing out all of Reigns' flaws whilst all he can say about Cena is repeating the internet from 5 years ago, though.

My favourite part, apart from the crowd reacting to the drug test bit, was the subtle "when you think you've made it, that's when you're done" Roman should absolutely destroy Cena in the match, but that is the one part that makes me question whether maybe Cena will destroy Reigns in both promos and the match.

I doubt Reigns is complacent now, but a while ago he was having Corbin like interactions with fans saying how he is the main event for the next decade, he is going to make millions and he doesn't really give a shit etc etc. So he has been guilty of that kind of attitude in the past.

Other than that, same as usual it hyped the match and makes it more and more likely that Cena will catch an absolute beating in retaliation. I don't know why they keep giving Reigns goofy Cena like lines though, he moved past that a while back. If they really are testing to see if he can do what Cena does, they should stop, because he can't.

Miz cut the best promo of the week though. He is still on absolute fire. It's a shame he is a champion because no one can legitimately touch him right now and with Rollins, Ambrose and Balor tied up, he still has no match to build. Right now his title is above mid card level because of his own peeformances, but with no matches lately, it's also stagnant. It's a weird one really.

They blurred even more face/heel lines this week too. Enzo is a 205 heel, but without ever really turning. It's more just an acceptance that no one buys him as a fighter, so he acts how you think he probably would when faced with athletes. But this week on Raw he fought as the face while the crowd kind of sided with Miz after his recent work. So maybe characters are becoming their own entity and people can decide if they like it or not, but there is still signs of not fully committing to that ideal, with Miz still trying to get heat and then the match ending how Miz matches end, 3 on 1. But you couldn't blame him this time, really.

The best plan would probably be, while there are monsters in the main event, get Miz set up as another main event attraction for the smaller guys. Either with the IC title in Raw, or replacing Mahal on SD. No match, or no main event calibre opponent for him can't carry on while he is in this form. Strike while the iron is hot...

Who are the kids supposed to like in this Cena Roman feud? All I could think this week was if I was 8 or whatever and I loved Cena and Reigns I'd probably be thinking why is Cena going after Roman, and why is Roman saying Cena talks nothing but shit.

They better have a babyface lurking somewhere for those kids to latch on to, otherwise they might be alienating them.

The ambulance spot was one thing, but that was trying to stop a big monster. These two babyfaces acting like total dicks can't be going down well with kids and parents, can it? In the attitude era wrestling was like that, so you knew going in, but this is out of nowhere in comparison, isn't it?

I'm just surprised there is no other babyface to make sure those viewers stick around if they are put off, unless it's supposed to be Jordan. Sami Zayn could gain a tonne of momentum right now by being the one nice guy trying to make it big though, hopefully he is involved on Smackdown because the timing is perfect for a guy like him. If they push him to the stars who could hate him? He could end up with a strong mainstream fan base.

For me im thinking Reigns is acting more heelish in this feud and cena is acting more face although both have said what fans are thinking about eachother but the way roman for me is acting and walking around is more heel to me.

I'm just looking at it from a different stand point and it's hard to see who kids will side with. Cena is obviously more established with that fan base, but I can't remember a point where it would be easy to explain to a kid why they are fighting on Sunday. And for most they will have previously probably liked both guys, but there might be a risk both get damaged in regard to that demographic.

The match will have to almost be no more talk, let's just see who is better. With the match probably telling the most substantial elements of the actual story they want. But will the kids be watching this PPV after the last few weeks to see that story?

There was an article about how the hell could a casual fan understand the endless insider terms and some of the things they are talking about too. Roman didn't fail a drug test, he was just live via satellite or injured or whatever they said on the actual WWE product, for example.

I'm tempted to read some comments on social media about it, but I might melt my brain. But it'd be interesting where the casual fans, marks and kids stand on this rivalry. There was a poll which had fans caring more about the Strowman Brock match by a huge margin, and WWE polls usually favour Cena or Reigns.

The main event is a far more digestible storyline though, and has the important element of them looking like they are legitimately beating the balls off of each other which draws right now.

That's a great point, Sexton. Reigns and Cena are thee two guys most over with the kids, but the feud is being booked for the benefit of the adult fans who love to boo the crap out of them. I'm assuming the hope is that by acknowledging that people hate Reigns, it might make us like him more or something? Or they start using the old Cena line of 'the most controversial WWE star in history' to try and make it seem okay he's being booed out of arenas.

I didn't like Reigns using the old footage of Cena slating Rock from 6 years ago either to prove he's a hypocrite. Lots of things change in 6 years, including people's opinions and plans (apart from my hatred of Bobby Lashley, that's a timeless feeling). For Reigns to drag that out was another really dick move. But did fit the fact that all of his arguments seem to be at least 6 years old and ripped straight off the internet.

What next for Roman, though? The Cena run is only a short term thing, so he'll need to face an out-and-out heel on Raw next to get the kids back on side. Strowman's been done to death this year, so Joe, maybe?

After beating Cena he'd have to claim a universal title shot, or it would just look like the Cena match was pointless. It's supposed to prove who's WWE it really is. Saying that sparked a thought... they could have Joe interrupt the match at the PPV and destroy both to claim it's actually his WWE. Which would be quite cool and shocking, and give Joe something big to get on with. Then Cena vs Reigns can happen st a bigger event properly. Joe was the guy who United them as a mutual enemy at first too. Hmm.

But other than that the match has to in essence be a number one contenders match because of how big the win will be seen as.

That is exactly what I was thinking who ever wins has to do that so im thinking Braun will have to win it as this is Lesnars last PPV before Feb next year and that I think is a long time to go without the main title on Raw so I would book It Braun wins and in feb or rumble Lesnar gets his rematch.

I'm hoping Lesnar loses, he doesn't need the title to be a big draw. Give Strowman the belt, let him destroy the roster for a while, then bring Brock back for a big Mania match vs Nakamura or AJ...

The whole Brock leaving thing would have been better when they had him threaten to go to UFC if he lost at SummerSlam though. But I do think when he comes back SD Live would be an interesting surprise.

Strowman as champ would generate a good buzz though, they tested him out with the mainstream and he already does well on YouTube and socially. He is a special attraction like Lesnar, but in a more wrestling traditional way. He really is a monster of a man. They keep having him goad McGregor as well, if WWE could just get those two stood next to each other it would be an insane visual. Walking Neville past him was a bit of genius on Raw too.

Yeah, you kinda lose sight of how big he is when he's surrounded by Lesnar and Reigns. When I saw Khali and Big Show live in the flesh, it was unreal seeing just how massive they really are.

Basically this kind of deal

Right. No Mercy summarised in half arsed fashion, missing out the first two or three matches as I only decided to write something later on.

Dean Ambrose turning in the biggest babyface performance in history haha. A classic feel about some of the stuff he does in ring with psychology and storytelling. Should he kick out so much? I don’t know, but they established him as the Jeff hardy style can take all kinds of a beating long enough ago for that to be okay, especially in a tag match with recovery time. You’d think Rollins would be the guy to make the pins too, but it’s been mostly Ambrose in this run. Is something brewing for him in the long term? Probably a heel run haha.

Cesaro's teeth Did they come out or get forced into his gums? I thought when they originally changed the ring posts people would get some bad injuries off them, but they are used to it now. It was like he forgot it was there and drove his teeth right into the edge of it though. Nasty one that.

Two teams with great chemistry though, any pairing of those four could actually be a one on one for a title and it would be just as good. The Bar have to leave it at the thumb signal though, no more weird leaning and pointing. That’s their one flaw, inability to get over in the mainstream led to over use of gimmicky stuff. The look is just about okay, but with kilts, jackets, glasses, then with the arm bumps, thumb signal and weird lean they have too much in an overcompensating fashion.

Cena vs Reigns a good match for kids, but it was basically just a few finishers and kick outs. The opening seemed like really over selling punches and the momentum seemed poor for that reason, in my opinion. Selling punches is good, but don't start a match with punches if you're going to do it like that.

Now they can do the Reigns “retired” Undertaker and John Cena, which is what Reigns needs to continue in his best role. I’m not sure if it’s Cena’s last, but I’d not be surprised if he has an unreported injury concern that is later announced, as well as going to do other stuff anyway.


No one wants Enzo to win this match. No one. And it feels like it’s building to an Enzo win which is making the atmosphere worse. Holding the belt to anger Neville... Here comes the nut shot then, really obvious, but oh well. The best thing from this will be moving Neville up to the proper roster and having the other 205ers go after Enzo instead.

Hmm. The main event felt flat. Really flat. It went from monster spectacle to pretty drab match. I think Strowman was really nervous. He was talking way too much to Brock. And the killer was the camera was always in close on them chatting away. There’s calling it in the ring, and then there’s excessively talking it through. He has better chemistry with Roman that’s for sure. It was a real shame, but means its probably for the best he didn't win.

Lesnar can now go away, Miz can take his spot as the top champion on Raw and things will pick back up.

Cesaro's teeth! I hadn't realised he did it on the ring post, I thought it was the boot to the head a few seconds later. Looked nasty as hell though. I think they were broken and he had to give them to the doctor at ringside. Hell of a match, the best match on the card.

Of the rest:

Womens match was great. I liked how they booked Nia jax to look like a beast. And Bayley getting booed? That's some achievement given how great she was in NXT. Love Alexa though, she's great.

Miz became the first guy to say 'Undertaker retired' on TV that I've noticed.

Jason Jordan: great in ring. Technically excellent. Utter shit on the mic and the charisma of a dead Bobby Lashley (which is mildly more than an alive Bobby Lashley). Cena's comments about guts not taking their opportunity may have been aimed at him. Guy needs his Rocky Maivia moment and damned quick.

Strowman vs Brock was basically Joe vs Brock 2. Brock gets battered, one f5, wins. Starting to get a bit bored of him now.

Cena vs Reigns: where to start? Cena oversold too much at the start, then oversold milking the crowd. Meanwhile, Roman just had his standard match, took punishment, won. I dunno, I was hoping for more from this one.

Enzo: I liked the ending, but telling the number of Boring chants that kicked in. Neville needs to be out of that division as soon as possible. I'd like to see him some Balor.

And as much as I love Bray Wyatt, by God he needs to win a match soon. And since when has Man vs Man been a stipulation?

It was the best match. I liked the ref spots too, thought the ref did well in all aspects, and it's not often you need to say that. He just worked really well with everyone, in and out of kayfabe, real duties and kayfabe refereeing. Ambrose either sold his shoulder well, using the ref as an extra piece to that puzzle having him check on him, or he was hurt and Cesaro kept the drama alive by fighting through the ref on the fly, either way it worked, but then there was the blood and teeth, more referee argument spots, it just all kept going really well, real adversity and storyline progression blending well. It's the only match I've noticed a ref using the intercom that much too, presumably to say Ambrose is actually okay and that Cesaro lost his teeth haha. I loved the simple things too, Ambrose deciding he needed to smash his shoulder back in place to keep selling fighting though the injury. It was just the best match in terms of drama, storytelling and well paced tag team action.


Yeah that ending was the only way Enzo should be winning, and it was smart, but it was done in silence. Enzo can get eyes on the 205 product, but it's going to have to be against all the basically still unknown guys, to get them over as great athletes with the mainstream crowd that follow, with one or two maybe finding a personality along the way by learning from him/retaliating to him being there. The feeling was that everyone is sick of Enzo as a wrestler though haha, but that will play in to his role as the cheat.

Neville vs Balor are some of my favourite NXT matches, that would be exactly where I'd go with them for now. Neville needs to be the heel that he is somewhere that people actually give a shit. And Balor is a perfect match up as the successful guy with no real challenge on the horizon.

Jordan is so nervous on his own. In NXT it was genius to put him with Gable because he made him seem like he had a personality by loosening him up, but he's back to how he was before Gable now. You could see when they got together they had good little segments it was Gable trying to get him to do the catchphrase and he looked more comfortable having fun with it. It feels like they are thinking of turning him, but I don't see him as a heel because he is genuinely shy. If anything what gets him over will be him being shown as vulnerable, but honest and true to himself. But right now it looks like they are trying to make him petulant. Unless it came out wrong and it was supposed to be funny or ooh worthy.

Must admit I didn't watch it all, just the matches that interested me. I was supreme wed Roman reigns won. I thought Cena would of won the match leading to a couple of others and reigns winning the next two say. It would of kept them busy and out of the way of others. Not sure what Cena does now? Back to Smackdown? Time off? We'll see. Reigns next step really is the universal title.

Tag team match was the best of the night. Cesaro is great. Not sure how long his run with she is will last but when they split he needs a huge push.ambrose is getting a lot of pinfalls in their matches I've noticed and a lot of ring time. He sells everything great. Again, not sure how long it will last but it will be interesting to see who will turn on who.

The IC title match was everything I expected it to be. I don't think Jordan is there yet for a title run - especially now that it will be the main title on raw for a while as Lesnar is off tv. The Miz is holding his own. The like the miztourage but o thing they are missing a big strong guy in there. Dallas and Axel don't look intimidating. The perfect guy for the miztourage imo would be Big Cass.

The universal title match was disappointing imo. All the build up has had Braun Strowman dominating Lesnar. Not once has Lesnar had the upper hand. Then, brauns from rat two moves in the match were choke slam and powersl - his finishers. Lesnar kicks out. I feel Strowman should of waited u til further into the match before using his finishers. He had nowhere to go after that. I've read elsewhere people moaning because Strowman didn't kick out of an F5. Im glad he didn't. Strowman has never been dominated before so we didn't know if he could take a beating (apart from against Roman). I don't like it when finishers don't get the wins apart from interfering or on a big PPV like mania.

Also, it was quite visible that Strowman was talking to Lesnar a hell of a lot during the match (I know it has to be done but normally never notice). Not sure if it was nerves or not but Lesnar keeping the title
Was the right thing to do in this match.

Sorry, rambled on a bit

The reason I thought it was nerves was the kimura spot. It just seemed messy and they were right by the ropes. The ref didn't break it in the corner either and it was like no one knew where they should be or Braun didn't know how he was supposed to get the break, by force or by grabbing a rope. Also as well as me, the commentators didn't seem sure if the story was "he's got arms like tree trunks will the hold be effective" or "he's close to tapping out for the first time ever" you know when commentators are arguing amongst themselves something isnt being portrayed as clearly as it should be.

You're supposed to know where the cameras are so you can turn away when you talk too. But Lesnar was also seen talking quite a bit. Lack of chemistry or some nerves, I'm not sure, but it wasn't anything like it could have been even without that stuff.

I spotted the talking too, but put it down to inexperience. Braun's matches are usually a few seconds, or multi-man stuff like Summerslam. It was the biggest match of his career, to be fair, against Lesnar, with a lot of people expecting he would win.

Has anyone else seen that Jeff Hardy is injured and facing a few months out? How long before Matt gets Broken?

He already has a great friendship and works well with Roman and they are his best matches and pretty much the only ones with time, like you say, and Brock is a different beast. There's a chance Brock just didn't want him to power out of the kimura too. But i dont think it lead to a spot where Braun failed to powerslam him because of his arm, Brock could have called that to make the finish better. Commentators could have mentioned that Roman injured that arm too.

Jeff injured I saw. TLC coming up next month too. I imagine that was set for the big finale of the Hardy's as a team. Hopefully he's back and they are exaggerating it, because either Matt vs Jeff or Ambrose and Rollins, Sheamus and Cesaro, the Revival all could have been good options for them in a TLC.