The most unselfish guy in the company

Chris Jericho

Which is a great irony because of his current persona.

He, together with Rey Mysterio, took the IC belt and in the span of a few PPV's elevated it from being an accessory given to glorified jobbers to being where it should be: just a notch below the world title. It's the workers championship once again.

Now, togeter with Edge, he's giving the tag division a go - couldn't really be happier with that as tag-wrestling's been criminally overlooked in the 'E for a while now. Because of Edge and Chris the titles can log PPV time like has not been seen in a long long time and get back to the prestige they once held.

All the while Chris could've easily been involved in the main event - and in all likelihood would have.

Chris Jericho is for me the best all round Pro Wrestler in America and he is a class act as a worker too, always willing to put people over yet could easily be the Triple H of the company if he seriously wanted to be, the difference is Chris knows the importance of having a strong team around him so that when he does lose it doesn't make him look weak and when he wins it makes him look good

"The best in the World at what he does!" is his quote, ITS AN UNDERSTATEMENT!

I don't particularly diagree with Chris Jericho being the most unselfish guy in the company, but I don't feel his fued with Mysterio has elevated the IC title. Unfortunately the title was a mere side issue with the real focus being on Rey's mask.

As for he and Edge now holding the tag titles, while it will be nice to see them defended on PPV for a change, I'm not holding my breath with regards to it actually rejuvenating the tag division.

The IC title looks as strong as it has in years and thats all down to the Jericho/Mysterio feud, sure the plan all along was for them to have a feud over the mask, thats why they tried it out up in Aberdeen, however intentional or not the IC title got mixed in with the feud and it has done it a world of good, Stevie Wonder could see that

I just felt watching the fued that the title was too much in the background. Sure it was nice to see it get defended a few times for a change, but it had jack shit to do with the actual fued, about the only aspect of the fued that I didn't enjoy. I don't feel it's profile has been raised at all, and all I can hope is that Rey goes onto a fued now that is all about the title. That's the way you actually raise the profile of a belt, making it all about that belt.

Well we must have been looking at it from different view points then, your right, the mask was a major part of it, however it was stated how much the mask meant to Rey and the Mexicans who wear masks, the fact that Rey was willing to put his mask on the line in order to get a shot at the title for me raised the IC title more than a long program with someone else ever could

Rey made it look like the IC title was the most important thing in the world to him when he put his mask up for grabs, for me that was a great way to raise the profile of the belt!

That was the only real point in the fued though where the title came into focus at all, and even then it came across to me more like he was willing to put his mask on the line just to get his hands on Jericho one more time. Can definitely see your point of view though now that you've mentioned it.

jericho is very unselfish but i would say kane is the most unselfish.look at who kane has jobbed to for fucks sake.and because of jericho the ic title is now a major title again

jericho saved the ic title huge props to him

Jericho is great, but I can't agree that he saved the IC title. WWE have been rebuilding it for some time now. Counting back the last few guys to hold it (from memory, so it may be a bit out...)

Mysterio (current holder) - former world champ
Jericho - former world champ
Mysterio - see above
JBL - former world champ, had world title shot 2 PPV's before he won it
CM Punk - former world champ, had to win a tournament to get his chance at it, by beating Mysterio in a cracking match in the final.
William Regal - I'd say it was about here that WWE started to rebuild the IC, as soon as he won it from Santino.

I'm enjoying the Jericho vs Mysterio feud, but the mask was the bigger aspect of the feud. Like when jericho faced HBK last year and the World title was suddenly added - although it was for the biggest title on Raw at the time, the strap was in the background of the feud. It was only used to make the feud even more important than it was.

And saying Mysterio only used the mask to get his title shot - it could also be argued that the mask was all he had as leverage to get the shot?

Jericho, the most unselfish guy in the company?
I disagree. To me, anyone willing to go out and job themselves out night after night is far less selfish than Jericho.
Tommy Dreamer, for one, worked for years in ECW, losing to almost everyone in the company at one point or another, and stuck with it. Hell, they even did an angle where he drank toilet water. (http://www.wrestlecrap.com/classic3.html)
Is Jericho potentially the most unselfish main eventer? possibly. But to say that he's most unselfish is false.

the irish godfather wrote:

jericho is very unselfish but i would say kane is the most unselfish.look at who kane has jobbed to for fucks sake.and because of jericho the ic title is now a major title again

I think the difference is Jericho is a world class performer who could realistically hold a World Title at any time, Kane hasn't looked World Title material since around 2002

Kay Fabe wrote:

the irish godfather wrote:

jericho is very unselfish but i would say kane is the most unselfish.look at who kane has jobbed to for fucks sake.and because of jericho the ic title is now a major title again

I think the difference is Jericho is a world class performer who could realistically hold a World Title at any time, Kane hasn't looked World Title material since around 2002

that makes him an unselfish main eventer, yes. I'd agree with Irish in saying that Kane's jobbing to everyone, and staying with the company all this time, definitely makes him a very unselfish person.

Grecian wrote:

Jericho is great, but I can't agree that he saved the IC title. WWE have been rebuilding it for some time now. Counting back the last few guys to hold it (from memory, so it may be a bit out...)

Mysterio (current holder) - former world champ
Jericho - former world champ
Mysterio - see above
JBL - former world champ, had world title shot 2 PPV's before he won it
CM Punk - former world champ, had to win a tournament to get his chance at it, by beating Mysterio in a cracking match in the final.
William Regal - I'd say it was about here that WWE started to rebuild the IC, as soon as he won it from Santino.

I'm enjoying the Jericho vs Mysterio feud, but the mask was the bigger aspect of the feud. Like when jericho faced HBK last year and the World title was suddenly added - although it was for the biggest title on Raw at the time, the strap was in the background of the feud. It was only used to make the feud even more important than it was.

And saying Mysterio only used the mask to get his title shot - it could also be argued that the mask was all he had as leverage to get the shot?

While I agree with you that the IC title began to become more relevant the night Santino lost it, I still wouldn't say it became anything less than the accessory it had become, Regal won it but then didn't defend it due to injury, they had an IC tournament for the #1 contendership, that went well and Punk won, then he and Regal had some pretty awful matches in the lead up to the final match which Punk won, after all the build they gave it they didn't even give it a PPV finish, as soon as Punk won it he started jobbing out in non title matches and didn't really defend it before JBL took it off him, JBL wanted to defend it at Mania but it was the biggest letdown of the show, JBL a company guy who came back when they needed him and they couldn't even give him a 10 minute farewell match at Mania for the 2nd most prestigious title on RAW

It was in my opinion only after Rey won it then entered into this feud with Jericho has the title actually looked like it meant something, I see what your saying that the mask was the leverage he needed to get his shot, but again I see that as backing up my point about them building the IC title, now if this was a Kane type figure then who cares a mask is a mask, but this is a Mexican, the ones who wear a mask do so as if their life depended on it so seeing the mask up for me highlights the importance the IC title is supposed to mean to Rey

Doomhammer wrote:

Kay Fabe wrote:

the irish godfather wrote:

jericho is very unselfish but i would say kane is the most unselfish.look at who kane has jobbed to for fucks sake.and because of jericho the ic title is now a major title again

I think the difference is Jericho is a world class performer who could realistically hold a World Title at any time, Kane hasn't looked World Title material since around 2002

that makes him an unselfish main eventer, yes. I'd agree with Irish in saying that Kane's jobbing to everyone, and staying with the company all this time, definitely makes him a very unselfish person.

Unselfish? yes
realistic? most definitely!

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I disagree. To me, anyone willing to go out and job themselves out night after night is far less selfish than Jericho.

When those guys are over enough to have the option of not jobbing then and only then should they be highlighted!

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Tommy Dreamer, for one, worked for years in ECW, losing to almost everyone in the company at one point or another, and stuck with it. Hell, they even did an angle where he drank toilet water.

Again absolutely nowhere near as talented as Chris Jericho so void!

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Is Jericho potentially the most unselfish main eventer? possibly. But to say that he's most unselfish is false.

False? why because you say so? who have you listed? Tommy Fucking Dreamer!

Sure!

Kay Fabe wrote:

Grecian wrote:

Jericho is great, but I can't agree that he saved the IC title. WWE have been rebuilding it for some time now. Counting back the last few guys to hold it (from memory, so it may be a bit out...)

Mysterio (current holder) - former world champ
Jericho - former world champ
Mysterio - see above
JBL - former world champ, had world title shot 2 PPV's before he won it
CM Punk - former world champ, had to win a tournament to get his chance at it, by beating Mysterio in a cracking match in the final.
William Regal - I'd say it was about here that WWE started to rebuild the IC, as soon as he won it from Santino.

I'm enjoying the Jericho vs Mysterio feud, but the mask was the bigger aspect of the feud. Like when jericho faced HBK last year and the World title was suddenly added - although it was for the biggest title on Raw at the time, the strap was in the background of the feud. It was only used to make the feud even more important than it was.

And saying Mysterio only used the mask to get his title shot - it could also be argued that the mask was all he had as leverage to get the shot?

While I agree with you that the IC title began to become more relevant the night Santino lost it, I still wouldn't say it became anything less than the accessory it had become, Regal won it but then didn't defend it due to injury, they had an IC tournament for the #1 contendership, that went well and Punk won, then he and Regal had some pretty awful matches in the lead up to the final match which Punk won, after all the build they gave it they didn't even give it a PPV finish, as soon as Punk won it he started jobbing out in non title matches and didn't really defend it before JBL took it off him, JBL wanted to defend it at Mania but it was the biggest letdown of the show, JBL a company guy who came back when they needed him and they couldn't even give him a 10 minute farewell match at Mania for the 2nd most prestigious title on RAW

It was in my opinion only after Rey won it then entered into this feud with Jericho has the title actually looked like it meant something, I see what your saying that the mask was the leverage he needed to get his shot, but again I see that as backing up my point about them building the IC title, now if this was a Kane type figure then who cares a mask is a mask, but this is a Mexican, the ones who wear a mask do so as if their life depended on it so seeing the mask up for me highlights the importance the IC title is supposed to mean to Rey

My understanding of the short 21 second match at Mania was due to JBL's back and knees being utterly shot, and following the match they had on Raw a few days previously, he was no in state. Plus, as a company man, surely giving him the Triple Crown of titles before he left was a pretty damned good send-off?

I don't doubt that the mask vs IC title has boosted the IC title, in the same way that Matt Hardy vs MVP boosted the US title. It's well-known that a decent feud can elevate any title, but I still think the mask is the bigger issue between the two. It started when Jericho accused Rey of hiding behind the mask - not hiding behind the IC belt. This feud would have happened, even if someone else was holding the IC strap. Both the US and IC title have been harmed by the number of titles in the company, Santino 'HonkyMeter' made it a comedy title briefly (as any title held by him would), Regal started making it more serious again, the 8 man tournament I'd say did more to re-elevate than a feud in which it's not even the main focus. If anything, the belt has been used to push the feud, rather than the other way round. If Rey didn;t have the mask, he'd have nothing to use to get the match with Jericho. The fued has been centred around Jericho trying to unmask Rey, not Rey's relentless pursuit of the IC belt.

Guess this comes down to how you look at the feud, and interpret the booking behinds it.

It could be percieved that Jericho used the mask to entice Rey into a feud so he could get his hands on the IC title, I know what your saying regarding Jericho trying to unmask Rey, however Rey is seen to be putting his mask on the line in order to get the IC title, if the IC title isn't seen to be important to him then surely he wouldn't run the risk of losing the mask?

As for JBL, if his back and knees where so shot then why bother having the match on RAW a few days before WrestleMania, surely being a company man and one of McMahon's 'tried and trusted' the match would have been better at Mania, Mania did nothing for JBL, Rey or the IC Title!

I thought he was a Triple Crown winner by beeing the WWE, US and Tag Champion

Really though, he was a grand slam winner

WWE Championship
WWE Hardcore Championship
WWE Intercontinental Championship
WWE United States Championship
WWF European Championship
WWF Tag Team Championship

It could be percieved that Jericho used the mask to entice Rey into a feud so he could get his hands on the IC title, I know what your saying regarding Jericho trying to unmask Rey, however Rey is seen to be putting his mask on the line in order to get the IC title, if the IC title isn't seen to be important to him then surely he wouldn't run the risk of losing the mask?

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Not as he's a face. Jericho challenged him to get the feud rolling, didn't he? As a face, Mysterio can't back down from the challenge, it does against the whole 'Biggest Underdog' of all-time thing too. When it all started, I don't remember Jericho calling out Rey for a title shot - I do remember Jericho accusing Rey of hiding behind the mask, calling him a hypocrite, all the usual Jericho stuff. I can see how it's all a ploy to get a IC title shot, but for the build-up of the feud until the Bash's Mask vs Title match, the belt has barely featured.

I thought JBL had the WWE Triple Crown of WWE / IC / Tag titles, as I don't think WWE has ever acknowledged that the US title is part of the Triple Crown?

Jericho challenged him and he had both the mask and the IC title, if the mask was the only thing Jericho wanted then why would the IC title be on the line? Jericho from my point of view used the mask as game plan to win the IC title from Rey

And I would say that it was conincidence that Rey had the IC belt when the feud started.

Thinking about it, the JBL vs Mysterio match was one of the last ones made for Mania, and at that point, Rey was the biggest name not to be on the card. He'd been eliminated from Money In The Bank by Kane, was not in the running for a main event, the Hardys had their little thing, HBK vs Taker, Jericho has the legends thing... then JBL gets the IC to complete the Triple Crown / Grand Slam, and the match is pretty obvious to get them both on the card. The only alternative I can think of would have been to rush Umaga / Kennedy back but that wouldn't have made sense either. In his post-Mania blog, JBL made a huge point that he'd put his good friend Rey over.

I honestly think JBL got the IC as his send-off, he faced Rey as one of the few possible opponents at Mania, then Jericho and Rey face each other at a house-show in Dublin, Rey's mask comes off, the lights in Creative / Jericho / Rey's heads go on, suddenly the mask becomes a focal point for the feud.

I'd also add that the Kane vs Rey feud of last year was also base around Rey's mask - the IC wasn't on the line then... the fact it is now is simply, in my opinion, an accident! WWE had Edge vs Jeff plans afoot for the big one, CM Punk's slow heel turn, Undertaker some way off returning, Umaga fired, what else is there for Rey and Jericho to do in the meantime?

So what about the WWE title then?

Was that just coincidental that Triple H was the champion when Randy Orton went on a punting spree?

Is the defence of his wife and in-laws not more important than the WWE Title?

I think Rey's mask came off in Aberdeen, sure I read it, I do KNOW the mask was the reason behind the origins of the feud, I've never disputed that, however when the IC title became involved its obvious it has raised the credibility of the IC title and Jericho is the man responsible for that in my opinion because its a feud and a strap he really didn't need, not with a face Punk and Jeff up against the only heel in Edge at the time

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I'd also add that the Kane vs Rey feud of last year was also base around Rey's mask - the IC wasn't on the line then... the fact it is now is simply, in my opinion, an accident! WWE had Edge vs Jeff plans afoot for the big one, CM Punk's slow heel turn, Undertaker some way off returning, Umaga fired, what else is there for Rey and Jericho to do in the meantime?

The Kane Rey feud was more centered around the heel turn of Kane, Rey had very little to do with it, the only time Rey became involved is when Vince got pissed off that the storyline (obvious storyline I might add) about Kane returning with the mask got rumbled on the net so done a complete 180 and used the only other guy in the company at the time wearing a mask, as for Jericho, well the initial plans where for him to work with The Undertaker however when he decided to take time off Jericho himself decided to work with Rey, Punk was mooted to him but with the heel turn in the offing it was reported that Jericho felt working against him would hurt Punks chances of a heel turn so they brought Umaga back for Punk, like I said Jericho requested the Rey angle knowing full well he was the IC Champ

So what about the WWE title then?

Was that just coincidental that Triple H was the champion when Randy Orton went on a punting spree?

Is the defence of his wife and in-laws not more important than the WWE Title?

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Orton vs Trips is a different kettle of fish altogether. Whereas Mysterio vs Jericho is something I'd never seen in a WWE ring (or any ring, for that matter), Orton vs Trips needed something different, and as Trips was the WWE champ at the time, Orton won the Rumble and there had to be a match between them. How do you sell a match you've seen too many times before to a crowd that's pretty much sick of it? You add a whole new element to it, which is where the punting spree and Orton acting like a complete Plymouth Argyle fan (that is to say, a complete cunt) kicked in quite nicely.

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The Kane Rey feud was more centered around the heel turn of Kane, Rey had very little to do with it, the only time Rey became involved is when Vince got pissed off that the storyline (obvious storyline I might add) about Kane returning with the mask got rumbled on the net so done a complete 180 and used the only other guy in the company at the time wearing a mask

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All Kane was carrying around was a bag. It could have contained anything, from any other superstar. And yeah, totally agree that Vince did a 180 on the storyline, but Rey's mask didn't have to be used. I dunno, could have been a picture of Undertaker's kids, Steph's used panties, Vince's sense of dignity...


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as for Jericho, well the initial plans where for him to work with The Undertaker however when he decided to take time off Jericho himself decided to work with Rey, Punk was mooted to him but with the heel turn in the offing it was reported that Jericho felt working against him would hurt Punks chances of a heel turn so they brought Umaga back for Punk, like I said Jericho requested the Rey angle knowing full well he was the IC Champ

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So Jericho as a heel, decided not to work with an impending heel turn, instead going with one of the most over faces in the company, and a guy who's a friend of his. Again, I think the IC was not an important consideration to Jericho - he held the World title two or three times last year, was Superstar of the Year, and has won the IC title 8 times (I think) going into the feud. Sure, I happily concede the IC title has been elevated by the feud, but I can't agree it was the main consideration for the feud in the first place. I'd say Rey held the title by accident rather than any kind of long-term planning, and it's co-incided nicely with him holding it.

Also really enjoying the debate, by the way!

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Orton vs Trips is a different kettle of fish altogether. Whereas Mysterio vs Jericho is something I'd never seen in a WWE ring (or any ring, for that matter), Orton vs Trips needed something different, and as Trips was the WWE champ at the time, Orton won the Rumble and there had to be a match between them. How do you sell a match you've seen too many times before to a crowd that's pretty much sick of it? You add a whole new element to it, which is where the punting spree and Orton acting like a complete Plymouth Argyle fan (that is to say, a complete cunt) kicked in quite nicely.

Actually John Cena was the World Heavyweight Champion on RAW, they had to do plenty of shuffling at No Way Out to make Triple H a world champion simply to make him eligible for the feud with Orton since he won the Rumble

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All Kane was carrying around was a bag. It could have contained anything, from any other superstar. And yeah, totally agree that Vince did a 180 on the storyline, but Rey's mask didn't have to be used. I dunno, could have been a picture of Undertaker's kids, Steph's used panties, Vince's sense of dignity...

True it didn't need to be a mask however it was a small bag, he was asking "is he alive or is he dead" and making other references that would have fit in with a return of the 'old Kane' and when this was rumbled very little else could have fit in the bag other than Rey's mask, this was a play on the smarks who said it was a mask, so Vince gave them a mask, only not Kane's, Rey's

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So Jericho as a heel, decided not to work with an impending heel turn, instead going with one of the most over faces in the company, and a guy who's a friend of his. Again, I think the IC was not an important consideration to Jericho - he held the World title two or three times last year, was Superstar of the Year, and has won the IC title 8 times (I think) going into the feud. Sure, I happily concede the IC title has been elevated by the feud, but I can't agree it was the main consideration for the feud in the first place. I'd say Rey held the title by accident rather than any kind of long-term planning, and it's co-incided nicely with him holding it.

Their was no signs at the time that CM Punk was going to turn heel though, he was well over when he was drafted to SmackDown! he came out and was calling Edge out, he even went over Edge clean in a non title match, Punk was looking at being the biggest face on SD for the time being but Jeff was involved in the current main event storyline which rendered Punk useless for the time being and Jericho/Punk was muted but Jericho thought it would hurt both of their characters since Jericho might need to reign it in a little against Punk because of Punk gives as good as he took off Jericho on the stick then it would have made Punks heel turn all the harder

Like I said, I don't think I've said the IC title was the main reason for the feud, the mask was however Jericho being involved has helped raise the profile of the IC title higher than its been for years, and Rey's use of the mask considering how important its meant to be regarded has helped elevate it even higher, considering he has been seen to put something so prestigious to him and the Mexican public up for a chance to reclaim the IC title

Kay Fabe wrote:

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I disagree. To me, anyone willing to go out and job themselves out night after night is far less selfish than Jericho.

When those guys are over enough to have the option of not jobbing then and only then should they be highlighted!

they have the option to leave the company with their dignity intact.

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Tommy Dreamer, for one, worked for years in ECW, losing to almost everyone in the company at one point or another, and stuck with it. Hell, they even did an angle where he drank toilet water.

Again absolutely nowhere near as talented as Chris Jericho so void!
quote]
One needs talent to be unselfish?

One has to have to oppurtunity to BE selfish

Dreamer never did...