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 Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take

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macclads
thegunman84
the-gaffer
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Heath Slater's Kid
Heath Slater's Kid
the-gaffer


Location : Glasgow Number of posts : 12238 Favourite Wrestler : CM Punk

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyTue Aug 19, 2008 11:12 pm

I've been thinking about this since the title match last night. I'm sorry if this has been said already.

Much has been made about CM Punk. Great in the ring, great on the mic, enough charisma to... yada yada yada. We've heard it a million times. Still, we on the Internet treat him differently than we do someone else in his position. Everything has to be perfect. In a bizarre way, we are the fan equivalent of an overprotective mother - we don't want anything bad to ever happen to him, and when it does, we make excuses. He loses? Oh... that's because of bad writing. He's not over? That's because he isn't given enough mic time. He only makes a "cameo" on TV? That's because of the "nuclear heatz" he's getting from Tony Atlas or Triple H or whatever. Honestly, it comes down to one reason: he's "our guy."

Now, there are have been several upper crust WWE wrestlers in the past ten years that can fit that description, from Bret Hart to Steve Austin to Chris Jericho. Ah... but Punk is different. We didn't just "grow up" watching him on TV. He's not just a "hero." He's us. We cheer for him because he truly represents us.

When I say "us," I don't mean "Ring of Honor" fans. For years, CM Punk was one of the multitude of wrestlers that would inhabit a high school or a community rec center or some barn in the middle of nowhere every Friday or Saturday night. Yes, everyone knew that he was something special, but again, many are. At the end of the day, however, he was just that guy you happen to meet at the Waffle House or the local bar and grill after the match. Then he was signed by the WWE... and that's when things got interesting.

At first, no one thought it would last. After all, we've been "burned" before. Not many of our "favorites" really make it far in the WWE, if they even get the chance at all. Think about it. Christopher Daniels is seemingly stuck in TNA's mid-card as Curry Man. (Please... no comments.) Stevie Richards was a glorified jobber for years before he got fired. Al Snow was Lief Cassidy, then he was Mick Foley's "best friend." Even Reckless Youth, a man known for years as the "King of the Indies," never got past developmental. Others disappeared due to their personal dependencies (Chris Candido), their mouth (Shane Douglas), or because their personalities clashed with the boss' (Raven). Yeah, there was Foley, but he was before our time. Most of us first remember him from ECW or as Mankind, not as that fat guy who used to routinely wrestle a man called "Beef Stew." Punk was going to get that treatment as far as we were concerned. At best, he was going to be an Intercontinental champion.

But he didn't. He became world champ. And he stayed world champ for more than two seconds somehow. Suddenly, we don't know what to do. He - and when I say "he," I actually mean "we" - did it. Our favorite, the guy that we helped build, is finally near the top of the heap. Now what? So again, we nitpick. This is wrong, that is wrong. We get upset when his SummerSlam title match isn't on par with his sixty-minute epics against the likes of Chris Hero or Samoa Joe. We complain when that promo on Raw isn't a scathing, ten-minute diatribe ending with "...because I'm better than you." "If only he did these things," we say to our friends or on message boards like this one, "then everyone would know how great he is."

And there it is again. "Then everyone would know what we know already." When Punk wins, we win. He's us. And quite frankly, we are "better than you."
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thegunman84
5 Time World Champion
5 Time World Champion
thegunman84


Location : Parts Unknown Number of posts : 2141

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyWed Aug 20, 2008 12:04 pm

Good article. As you know, I'm not much of a Punk fan, however I was surprisingly pleased when I found out WWE had made him their champ. I don't really care much about him, but was glad to see them making a new star. What you say is true that a lot of internet fans do have a lot of gripes with the way things have gone for him from the moment he walked through the door. However you have to admit that his title run has been somewhat lacklustre, and he's looked like a poor champion, this is all down to booking.
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macclads
Money in the bank winner
Money in the bank winner
macclads


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take UnitedStatesofAmericaUSA-1

Location : Cheshire Number of posts : 1556 Favourite Wrestler : Current WWE: The Miz, Jericho, Orton, Evan Bourne, William Regal, Christian, Jack Swagger, CM Punk, Kaval

TNA: Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin, AJ Styles, Jay Lethal, Matt Morgan, Desmond Wolfe, Mr Anderson, Hernandez, Douglas Williams, Robert Roode, Kurt Angle, Young Bucks, Samoa Joe, Kaz.

Others: Bryan Danielson, Chris Hero, Colt Cabana, Christopher Daniels, Jack Evans, Austin Aries, Tyler Black, El Generico, Briscoe Brothers, Claudio Castagnoli, Roderick Strong, Rhett Titus.

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyWed Aug 20, 2008 1:01 pm

For me the booking of Punk as champ is a door opener.
It shows all the guys in independents, in TNA, the likes of the briscoes, Chris Hero, AJ Styles, Joe, etc, that it doesnt matter you came from WWE, it doesnt matter that you were champ in a rival, if you are good enough you can make it.
It shows that WWE don't just push their own, they don't just push the Batista's and Cena's of the world.
They don't just concentrate on the meatheads with zero personality, the guys that are backstage buds with Trips.
It sends a message. You can make it in WWE.
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Junior
WWE Champion as G.M
Junior


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Niger-1

Location : The City Of Angles Number of posts : 16515 Favourite Wrestler : Essa Rios, CM Punk, Too Cool, Aj Styles ,Shawn Michaels,

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyWed Aug 20, 2008 1:06 pm

Yeah but saying that they dont always give other people from other promotions the best of chances braden walker ?
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thegunman84
5 Time World Champion
5 Time World Champion
thegunman84


Location : Parts Unknown Number of posts : 2141

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyWed Aug 20, 2008 1:13 pm

I'm not convinced, a part of me feels like this poorly booked title run of Punks is a way for WWE to give a big fuck you to the IWC. They'll basically say we wanted it, they gave it to us, and it flopped so back to doing things the WWE way. And forget anyone from TNA getting a push, they're WWE closest rivals (even though they aint that close) guys from RoH may have a chance cos it's still a relatively small promotion, much like WWE would push guys they signed from ECW, wheras a lot of WCW guys were pretty much jobbed out.
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macclads
Money in the bank winner
Money in the bank winner
macclads


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take UnitedStatesofAmericaUSA-1

Location : Cheshire Number of posts : 1556 Favourite Wrestler : Current WWE: The Miz, Jericho, Orton, Evan Bourne, William Regal, Christian, Jack Swagger, CM Punk, Kaval

TNA: Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin, AJ Styles, Jay Lethal, Matt Morgan, Desmond Wolfe, Mr Anderson, Hernandez, Douglas Williams, Robert Roode, Kurt Angle, Young Bucks, Samoa Joe, Kaz.

Others: Bryan Danielson, Chris Hero, Colt Cabana, Christopher Daniels, Jack Evans, Austin Aries, Tyler Black, El Generico, Briscoe Brothers, Claudio Castagnoli, Roderick Strong, Rhett Titus.

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyWed Aug 20, 2008 1:30 pm

I think the Chris Harris incident is down to him rather than WWE, it's obvious he's piled on the weight since he joined and he was meant to have a real bad attitude backstage.
Killings is getting the promos and I expect a good push for him when he joins.
Think business sense wise. WWE dont want to show rival companies employees that they should stay where they are, what good would that do for them?
They need to show the likes of Aj Styles that if they came over to WWE they would get a push. Easiest way for WWE to destroy TNA is to take its best wrestlers.
It won't do that by making the ones that move over look weak.
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macclads
Money in the bank winner
Money in the bank winner
macclads


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take UnitedStatesofAmericaUSA-1

Location : Cheshire Number of posts : 1556 Favourite Wrestler : Current WWE: The Miz, Jericho, Orton, Evan Bourne, William Regal, Christian, Jack Swagger, CM Punk, Kaval

TNA: Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin, AJ Styles, Jay Lethal, Matt Morgan, Desmond Wolfe, Mr Anderson, Hernandez, Douglas Williams, Robert Roode, Kurt Angle, Young Bucks, Samoa Joe, Kaz.

Others: Bryan Danielson, Chris Hero, Colt Cabana, Christopher Daniels, Jack Evans, Austin Aries, Tyler Black, El Generico, Briscoe Brothers, Claudio Castagnoli, Roderick Strong, Rhett Titus.

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyWed Aug 20, 2008 1:33 pm

I think WWE have a very keen eye at present on ROH.
I expect a fair few of its stars to be 'tapped up' in a feeder club style way.
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bazz23-v2 ®™
Second Divorce
bazz23-v2 ®™


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Canada

Location : Death Vally Number of posts : 3348 Favourite Wrestler : Big daddy.

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyWed Aug 20, 2008 1:44 pm

Thing that's just starting to get to me when I see people moaning about punks run with the gold(mainly on LOP to be honest), is that people who bitched and moaned when Cena was made to look like superman, and never lost even when the belt wasn't on the line, are the exact same people who are moaning that "punk shouldn't be losing because he is champ" and being made to look weak.

Guess that's just the hypocrisy of smarkdom

Junior wrote:
Yeah but saying that they dont always give other people from other promotions the best of chances braden walker ?

That's harsh Jnr, he turned up looking like Michelin man, what did he expect to happen?
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Junior
WWE Champion as G.M
Junior


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Niger-1

Location : The City Of Angles Number of posts : 16515 Favourite Wrestler : Essa Rios, CM Punk, Too Cool, Aj Styles ,Shawn Michaels,

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyWed Aug 20, 2008 1:46 pm

lol yeah you have point there at least hes got his own DVD
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bazz23-v2 ®™
Second Divorce
bazz23-v2 ®™


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Canada

Location : Death Vally Number of posts : 3348 Favourite Wrestler : Big daddy.

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyWed Aug 20, 2008 1:55 pm

Ummmm you remember where that come from by any chance?

*shannagans have been called*
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Junior
WWE Champion as G.M
Junior


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Niger-1

Location : The City Of Angles Number of posts : 16515 Favourite Wrestler : Essa Rios, CM Punk, Too Cool, Aj Styles ,Shawn Michaels,

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyWed Aug 20, 2008 1:57 pm

Yeah i was thinking that lol i havent seen that vid before though
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thegunman84
5 Time World Champion
5 Time World Champion
thegunman84


Location : Parts Unknown Number of posts : 2141

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyWed Aug 20, 2008 1:58 pm

Well, I'm not saying he should be winning every match, but losing as frequently as he does really doesn't help things. They really need to find a way to strike a balance, whereby the champ can take a loss once in a while, but not anywhere near as regularly as Punk has been. Even Randy Orton had a stronger start to his last title reign.
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bazz23-v2 ®™
Second Divorce
bazz23-v2 ®™


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Canada

Location : Death Vally Number of posts : 3348 Favourite Wrestler : Big daddy.

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyWed Aug 20, 2008 2:08 pm

I agree with that they have to strike a balance but we forget that he's been with the company, what, 2yrs and this is his first title run, which is designed to step him up a level, I think its working, people(not all granted) are behind him.

I doubt he will be champ much longer, but if at the end of his run he's elevated, then its a success.

PS: none of what I said was aimed at anyone one her to be honest, mainly smarks from other sites, but anything I ever write over there that goes against the smarky ways of its members is considered "flame baiting" for some reason.
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Geronimo(Jamie Thurtle)
5 Time World Champion
5 Time World Champion
Geronimo(Jamie Thurtle)


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Untitl11

Location : Norwich Number of posts : 2354 Favourite Wrestler : CM Punk

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyWed Aug 20, 2008 2:46 pm

Thing with Punk is that there is no reason for the fans to get behind him. For two years he was on ECW which gets half the ratings of RAW. So the only time that Punk was seen by the other half was on PPVs and then he was in ECW title matches and we all know what they are like.(Not enough air time etc.)
So Punk came to RAW and most people had at least heard about him (most having seen him once or twice) but a lot of people wouldnt have seen much of him and he comes in and instantly wins a world title. It took over a month before he was getting a decent pop for a champion, even Kane was beating him.
IMO they should have made video promos hyping his RAW debut so there background info and people get to see Punk, and like him.
This would have made his title win awesome, he comes down and in his RAW debut match after being bigged up for a few weeks, he wins the world title, not only beating Edge(biggest heel in WWE) but bringing a world title to RAW.
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the-gaffer
Heath Slater's Kid
Heath Slater's Kid
the-gaffer


Location : Glasgow Number of posts : 12238 Favourite Wrestler : CM Punk

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyThu Aug 21, 2008 6:31 pm

Punk WAS the holder of the 'money in the bank' contract so he does not need to be seen as highlighting his danger to all and sundry, he was afforded the element of surprise being that MITB winner.

If you are hoping to win the title you don't highlight your abilities, not unless you are trying to prove you deserve a title shot, again being the winner of the MITB means he does not need to prove he is good enough for a title shot, so the winner does his own thing UNTIL the right moment arises!

I think CM Punk has been booked brilliantly so far, although I do believe he could be booked better, however only with being allowed more promo time!
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InvincibleIleak
Second Divorce
InvincibleIleak


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take England-1

Location : Earth Number of posts : 3941 Favourite Wrestler : Chris Jericho
CM Punk
Edge
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Shawn Michaels

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyFri Aug 22, 2008 4:36 pm

I was thinking about this and thought maybe abit like what Macclads was saying is it a way WWE are saying they are changing, that you don't have to have been 'made' by WWE AND you don't have to be unnaturally muscly, you can be of different build i.e. Punk.
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Geronimo(Jamie Thurtle)
5 Time World Champion
5 Time World Champion
Geronimo(Jamie Thurtle)


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Untitl11

Location : Norwich Number of posts : 2354 Favourite Wrestler : CM Punk

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyFri Aug 22, 2008 4:39 pm

But weve known you dont have to be a particular build for years now with Mysterio, Jericho and Austin who wasnt really muscley.
I think WWE will accept any one who isnt loyal to TNA any one who has stabbed them in the back as welcome.
Although well see how Gail Kim does as how WWE use her may prove an incite as to the way TNA stars are gonna fair in WWE. However, if they come from a small company theres no reason for them to be used badly as they havent been an enemy as such.
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bazz23-v2 ®™
Second Divorce
bazz23-v2 ®™


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Canada

Location : Death Vally Number of posts : 3348 Favourite Wrestler : Big daddy.

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyFri Aug 22, 2008 4:57 pm

So it all rests on how Gail Kim goes, as to how well TNA wrestlers will go in the WWE?

At the end of the day she's a chick and will always be down the pecking order, women's wrestling is only watched by a fraction of wrestling fans, if you're expecting a "Jericho style" re-debut and 20mins TV time per show, then you may be disappointed.

All women are miss-used by WWE and Gail knew that when she resigned with them.
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macclads
Money in the bank winner
Money in the bank winner
macclads


Country : Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take UnitedStatesofAmericaUSA-1

Location : Cheshire Number of posts : 1556 Favourite Wrestler : Current WWE: The Miz, Jericho, Orton, Evan Bourne, William Regal, Christian, Jack Swagger, CM Punk, Kaval

TNA: Alex Shelley, Chris Sabin, AJ Styles, Jay Lethal, Matt Morgan, Desmond Wolfe, Mr Anderson, Hernandez, Douglas Williams, Robert Roode, Kurt Angle, Young Bucks, Samoa Joe, Kaz.

Others: Bryan Danielson, Chris Hero, Colt Cabana, Christopher Daniels, Jack Evans, Austin Aries, Tyler Black, El Generico, Briscoe Brothers, Claudio Castagnoli, Roderick Strong, Rhett Titus.

Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take Empty
PostSubject: Re: Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take   Punk, the WWE and we the fans - a fans take EmptyFri Aug 22, 2008 5:14 pm

the other thing to remember nowadays is that a face isnt always a Cena style superman.
It isn't just black and white anymore. The line between heel and face isn't as clear as it was. Cena gets booed by many, Edge stil gets pops as a major heel.
Punk showed with the manner of his title win over Edge that he can use non face tactics to get the result required. He doesnt have to do FU's to get the win.
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